Current Outrage

Politics - try to keep the punches above the belt
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T-Bubs
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Current Outrage

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by The Dude »

Exactly.

These same people tried peacefully protesting by taking a knee during the national anthem and our President called them Sons of Bitches and said that they should be fired. A segment of society quit watching the NFL instead of taking their cause seriously.

I wonder what all those people that called being asked to wear a mask to protect against Covid TYRANNY!!1!!!! think about the President invoking the Insurrection Act to deploy the US military against our own citizens?

Police fired tear gas this evening in DC on peaceful protestors and forcefully pushed them out of the way with riot gear and horses so this asshat could walk across the street to a boarded up church for a photo op. What a bunch of fucking baloney horsefeathers red meat for his trumpkins.

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First video link I could find here

I can't figure out why people are all stirred up!? Qualified Immunity for cops is right up there with Civil Asset Forfeiture as the most fucked up government policy. This unrest will not subside through sheer brute force, real reform is needed.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

Geez, Dude, this isn't about Trump. Who gives a shit that he walked across the street? I'm a little more concerned that anarchists are trying to burn our cities to the ground while liberal mayors and governors let it happen.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by The Dude »

That's an absurd statement.

What are the protests about - police officers in this country killing unarmed black men. It's a real problem. You can bury your head in the sand act like it isn't a real issue, but it is. And per Bub's original post, it's possible to think that looters should be held accountable and that the protestors are highlighting a real problem.
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https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/34/16793.full.pdf

Your boy inserted himself into this issue when he decided to turn Kaepernick's kneeling into part of his culture war. He says he supports peaceful protest, but again, cusses players engaged in peaceful protest and does nothing to actually be a leader and address the issue. In fact, he makes the issue worse by doing stuff like going in front of police unions and telling them to "rough them up a little bit" when they are putting people into squad cars.

In times of social upheaval you don't think it is the President's place to try to bring calm to a situation like this? In his speech last night he didn't even mention the core of the issue or bring up the agony the country is going through. He just wanted to play fake tough guy and talk about deploying the US military against US citizens - and all of the fake limited government Republicans shrug it off. WTF? I'm concerned about the anarchy too, but this is very obviously not the best way to bring a quick and clean end to it. Do you really believe he's doing a good job here?

And the Antifa BS that Fox News and Trump are pushing is way over hyped:
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/t ... r-n1221456

What a sad state of affairs we are in when the President uses tear gas to push people out of the way so he can take a horseshit fake picture and his supporters think people are overreacting about bringing it up. Watch the video from yesterday and tell me that is the type of country you want to live in. That's some banana republic BS I would expect to see in some far flung South American country. Literally gassing his own people who are exercising constitutionally protected rights so he can take a picture that all but the most loyal cult members can see would look absurd in a cheap 80's B movie. Listen to this until the very end - it's hilarious in an incredibly sad way.


Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

Absurd?

Absurd is watching a week of rioting in virtually every major city in America and thinking is this is about Colin Kaepernick and Donald Trump. Did I ever say that police brutality wasn't real? I worked with law enforcement for almost a decade, and I'm very well aware that there are some shady folks in law enforcement. The vast majority are great people who risk their life on a daily basis to protect people of all races, but there are certainly those in the law enforcement community who abuse their power. I know black people that I genuinely like and trust, who are model citizens, who genuinely feel that if they get stopped by an officer, they could get arrested or worse for no reason.

Yes, it is a real issue. Yes, what happened to George Floyd is murder. And yes, people frustrated about this issue have every right to protest.

Unfortunately, that is only one storyline in what is going on here, and sadly, it may not even be the main storyline anymore.

When the rioting started, I was taken aback by what I saw on television and on social media. On the first night or two, it wasn't a bunch of angry black people fighting with police officers, breaking windows or vandalizing stores and monuments. At least half (probably more) of the people doing this crap were white people. Twentysomething white people in masks seemed to be leading the charge. I saw it with my own eyes...before Trump or Barr said anything about Antifa.

Angry, violent white people were instigating a lot of this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 291658002/

I don't know if it's Antifa. The left seems to be suggesting that white supremacists are pretending to be Antifa-like groups and doing this...that seems to take a lot of mental gymnastics, but I'm not ruling anything out at this point. What seems undeniable is that this was organized. You have a lot of the extreme left...the Occupy-types, Antifa, some of your more radical Bernie-types...that hate our country and our culture and want to burn the whole thing to the ground. I've never taken them very seriously because they just seem like pathetic losers to me, but there are quite a few of them, and they certainly played a role in the rioting. How much so? I hope we find out, and I hope they are locked up, because these aren't protesters, these are terrorists. Terrorism is the use of violence to further a political agenda, and organized rioters are terrorists.

Of course, as the week has advanced, you've seen more black people looting and rioting. Most of these folks are just opportunist criminals who see that they can steal or destroy a bunch of stuff and nothing is going to happen to them. They probably know little or nothing about George Floyd and don't care.

Why didn't the mayors and governors do more to protect these cities? Police officers largely just stood down and let them do it. Graffiti and vandalism is not protest. My heart breaks for store owners in these cities (many of whom are minorities) who have seen their businesses and lives destroyed. Trump made the National Guard available to help handle this, but state and local officials would not call them in. I can only speculate why. I think some of these leaders think that we deserve this on some level...that this is some kind of needed purge of the system. I think some of it is political...that they don't want to give Trump a "win" and would rather see lives destroyed so that they can pin blame on him. Regardless of their rationale, state and local officials failed to protect their citizens and their property.

Trump isn't my "boy." I feel like you're projecting your opinion of Trump-supporters on to me. While I agree with Trump on quite a few issues, I'm not driving around town with a MAGA hat on, and he disappoints me frequently by picking stupid Twitter fights and failing to take the high road that a head of state often needs to take.

But,you seem to really have your panties in a bunch about him walking across the street to take a picture. With all of this going on in the country right now, is this really the thing that has you most upset? If so, turn off the MSNBC for a day and go for a walk or something because your TDS is eating you alive.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by The Dude »

Sorry if I have you miscast, but when your first foray into this forum is all about how there is a deep state that is out to subvert Trump and his agenda, well, you might as well make your avatar a red hat.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, there is some weird undercurrent of white people subverting what have been otherwise peaceful protests. It's probably a combination of Antifa and other troublemakers that absolutely need to be rooted out and squashed. The Magnum PI shirt wearing boogaloo clowns with their designer guns and far right ideologies worry me a lot more than some soy boy lefties from Portland.

I guess where you and I are depart are that you think it's all the fault of Democratic governors and and mayors not responding harshly enough and I think this is a national problem that is going to require national leadership. There are numerous instances around the country - I've seen videos from Flint, Michigan and Fort Worth where police officers took a softer posture with protestors - marched with them and took a knee and prayed with them - and the protests dissipated without devolving into tear gas and looting. I think we would be getting much better results if we had that sort of leadership on a national level instead of bloviating about "you start looting, we start shooting" and "vicious dogs" being used. I don't see how you don't see that Trump has made himself front and center of the whole problem and is pouring gasoline on the fire instead of being a LEADER. I should add that I haven't seen anything from Congressional leaders on this issue either - who is going to propose a bill to roll back Qualified Immunity?

And you are completely waving away the gassing of citizens as "walking across the street" - if being outraged about a publicity stunt that results in citizens being gassed for no reason means I suffer from TDS, then I'll proudly wear that scarlet letter.

It sounds like the Episcopalian Bishop over that church is pissed off as well:
The bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington condemned President Donald Trump on Monday for his visit to St. John's Episcopal Church near the White House after law enforcement officers used tear gas to clear protesters from the area.

"Let me be clear: The president just used a Bible, the most sacred text of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and one of the churches of my diocese without permission as a backdrop for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and everything that our churches stand for," Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde told CNN.

"And to do so... he sanctioned the use of tear gas by police officers in riot gear to clear the church yard. I am outraged," Budde said.

Budde is the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese Washington, overseeing more than 80 Episcopal congregations, including St. John's. She is the first woman to serve in her position.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 313842002/

I guess she just needs to go get some fresh air or go see a doc about another pesky TDS flare up.

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

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Relevant from Republican icon, George Will.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

I have a problem with anyone that says they are for peace and prosperity then 2 minutes later tear gasses and flash bangs a group of peaceful protesters.

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

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Ahhh yes, George Will, that old libtard cuck, he really does have a way with words doesn't he:
In life’s unforgiving arithmetic, we are the sum of our choices. Congressional Republicans have made theirs for more than 1,200 days. We cannot know all the measures necessary to restore the nation’s domestic health and international standing, but we know the first step: Senate Republicans must be routed, as condign punishment for their Vichyite collaboration, leaving the Republican remnant to wonder: Was it sensible to sacrifice dignity, such as it ever was, and to shed principles, if convictions so easily jettisoned could be dignified as principles, for . . . what? Praying people should pray, and all others should hope: May I never crave anything as much as these people crave membership in the world’s most risible deliberative body.
Thank you for posting Bubs, I had not seen that.

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

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Another good article by more deranged Republicans at the Bulwark:
Imagine a parallel universe in which the president doesn’t pull a Bible out of a Birkin bag and wave it around for cameras but instead takes the opportunity to kneel and pray for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in silence for and with the country. Imagine a president capable of paying respects to anyone or anything.

...........

Meanwhile, the president, consumed by his dependence on the economy and obsession with ratings does not understand the suffering of the people he has sworn to serve. With the election five months away and Trump consistently trailing his opponent in the polls, instead of addressing the concerns and grievances that instigated the uprisings, he is grasping for control by pantomiming a strongman.

...........

This was not a response to peaceful protests to which he is supposedly an ally. In fact, Trump himself did exactly what he said we should not do at the beginning of his speech: “We cannot allow the righteous cries and peaceful protesters to be drowned out by an angry mob.” He let the peaceful protesters be drowned out: His comments address only the problem of those who have seized the moment for vice under the cloak of confusion and chaos. Solely calling for an end to the rioting and looting is a failure to address the originating grievance. It is not an end to the outpouring of grief from the black community and all those who stand along with them demanding justice and reform.

To address only the violence in this way is to ignore the righteous and reduce the demonstrations to the worst actors. To refer at all to the Second Amendment can only be explained as a dog-whistle.

Where is the policy? Where is the East Room event for minority business owners affected by looters? Where is the listening session in the Roosevelt Room with families who have lost loved ones to police?
https://thebulwark.com/optics-over-substance/

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

I guess where you and I are depart are that you think it's all the fault of Democratic governors and and mayors not responding harshly enough and I think this is a national problem that is going to require national leadership. There are numerous instances around the country - I've seen videos from Flint, Michigan and Fort Worth where police officers took a softer posture with protestors - marched with them and took a knee and prayed with them - and the protests dissipated without devolving into tear gas and looting. I think we would be getting much better results if we had that sort of leadership on a national level instead of bloviating about "you start looting, we start shooting" and "vicious dogs" being used. I don't see how you don't see that Trump has made himself front and center of the whole problem and is pouring gasoline on the fire instead of being a LEADER. I should add that I haven't seen anything from Congressional leaders on this issue either - who is going to propose a bill to roll back Qualified Immunity?
Come on, man. We have a system of federalism. You really would have been more comfortable if Trump had taken control of the situation and dictated to mayors and governors exactly how they were supposed to handle their own streets? The media would have eaten him alive for being a dictator! He really is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. This photo-op you keep talking about...this was after several days of the media asking where Trump was and accusing him of hiding in a bunker. So, he walks through what was a warzone less than 24 hours earlier, and now he is a despot for clearing the area first? The anti-Trump crowd long ago made up their minds about him, and it really doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do anymore because they've already made up their minds that it's his fault no matter what.

PS, I love the irony of that picture of Trump. He stands in front of a sign that says "All Are Welcome." I guess except him.

Like you, I agree that Trump's rhetoric was not unifying and I don't like it. But, he could have given the greatest speech in history, and I don't think it would have changed one damn thing about how these riots unfolded. But, it would have made us feel better? Half of the country would still just call him a racist and blame him for this.

George Will is a coastal elitist completely out of touch with the American middle class.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

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Always the victim. The supposed most powerful man in the world is always so picked on and the woe-is-me victim. It's a dark and lonely job, if you can't stand the heat and step into the breach when you're needed then kindly bugger off and stick to schlepping shitty steaks and a fake university.

There is such a chasm between declaring Martial Law and being a good leader who can display real empathy and be a leader the country desperately needs during a dark time that it's hard to understand how one cannot see it.

One more time - photo op = normal and happen all the time ; photo op that requires using tear gas on protestors to create = not normal and a bad deal. This isn't that difficult. At least you admit it wasn't some real statement of his faith but just a stunt to show people that he wasn't a coward in his bunker and that he's really a tough guy who can walk among the common man. *dumb

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

Dude, I'm just pointing out that he can't win no matter what he does because half our population made up their mind a long time ago. Your argument tends to bolster my case.
One more time - photo op = normal and happen all the time ; photo op that requires using tear gas on protestors to create = not normal and a bad deal. This isn't that difficult.
The White House has said that the protesters were told to move their protests multiple times before any of those methods were used, and I'm pretty sure I remember from law school that although we have freedom of speech guaranteed in the 1st amendment, the government does have some say on where and when that right can be exercised.

One more time, I don't give a shit. If you're outraged about it, okay. I'm done talking about this because there are way more important things going on in the world.
Last edited by Master of My Domain on Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

deleted double post
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

GlassJoe
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by GlassJoe »

I am legitimately enjoying the banter. I'm very apolitical, and enjoy both viewpoints on this stuff. I just hate all politicians. Well, at least all that actually fall into the R or D crowd. We need a third party. Or fourth even.

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by The Dude »

Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under George W & Robert Gates, Mike Mullen gives a shit. Another deranged looney bin errrrr, conservative who can put his country over his party. Again, pretty sad state of affairs when otherwise intelligent people can't be bothered to care about a POTUS using tear gas (errrrrr smoke canisters with pepper spray balls, errrrrr the protestors were actually attacking the police!) on protestors just for a lame shit photo op.
It sickened me yesterday to see security personnel—including members of the National Guard—forcibly and violently clear a path through Lafayette Square to accommodate the president's visit outside St. John's Church. I have to date been reticent to speak out on issues surrounding President Trump's leadership, but we are at an inflection point, and the events of the past few weeks have made it impossible to remain silent.

Whatever Trump's goal in conducting his visit, he laid bare his disdain for the rights of peaceful protest in this country, gave succor to the leaders of other countries who take comfort in our domestic strife, and risked further politicizing the men and women of our armed forces.

There was little good in the stunt.

While no one should ever condone the violence, vandalism, and looting that has exploded across our city streets, neither should anyone lose sight of the larger and deeper concerns about institutional racism that have ignited this rage.

As a white man, I cannot claim perfect understanding of the fear and anger that African Americans feel today. But as someone who has been around for a while, I know enough—and I’ve seen enough—to understand that those feelings are real and that they are all too painfully founded.

We must, as citizens, address head-on the issue of police brutality and sustained injustices against the African American community. We must, as citizens, support and defend the right—indeed, the solemn obligation—to peacefully assemble and to be heard. These are not mutually exclusive pursuits.

And neither of these pursuits will be made easier or safer by an overly aggressive use of our military, active duty or National Guard. The United States has a long and, to be fair, sometimes troubled history of using the armed forces to enforce domestic laws. The issue for us today is not whether this authority exists, but whether it will be wisely administered.

I remain confident in the professionalism of our men and women in uniform. They will serve with skill and with compassion. They will obey lawful orders. But I am less confident in the soundness of the orders they will be given by this commander in chief, and I am not convinced that the conditions on our streets, as bad as they are, have risen to the level that justifies a heavy reliance on military troops. Certainly, we have not crossed the threshold that would make it appropriate to invoke the provisions of the Insurrection Act.

Furthermore, I am deeply worried that as they execute their orders, the members of our military will be co-opted for political purposes.

Even in the midst of the carnage we are witnessing, we must endeavor to see American cities and towns as our homes and our neighborhoods. They are not “battle spaces” to be dominated, and must never become so.

We must ensure that African Americans—indeed, all Americans—are given the same rights under the Constitution, the same justice under the law, and the same consideration we give to members of our own family. Our fellow citizens are not the enemy, and must never become so.

Too many foreign and domestic policy choices have become militarized; too many military missions have become politicized.

This is not the time for stunts. This is the time for leadership.

We want to hear what you think about this article. Submit a letter to the editor or write to letters@theatlantic.com.
Mike Mullen is a retired admiral from the U.S. Navy and was the 17th chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... es/612553/

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

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How the international world sees us.

Image

What's the difference in what's happening in Hong Kong and IF we start using the US military to disperse protesters? SWAT police already look like the military.

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

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Former Secretary of Defense and one of the most decorated Marines in history, James Mattis gives a shit.

Seems relevant that someone that worked next to Trump and saw how his decision making process (or lack thereof) works comes out and says he doesn't have what it takes to provide "mature leadership" as POTUS.
In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad

Let's look in on how one of Trump's most loyal capos is spinning this one:


Ahhhhhhh, so a retired 4 star General in the USMC isn't of strong enough mind to see through the librul media spin and the President is once again the victim of this unfair spin!? That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

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I'm very, very disappointed in Mattis. The world has gone mad. Our nation's largest cities were warzones for a week, and we're more concerned about a publicity stunt. The general is wrong, and I still don't give a shit.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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The Dude
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Re: Current Outrage

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Master of My Domain wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:06 pm
I'm very, very disappointed in Mattis. The world has gone mad. Our nation's largest cities were warzones for a week, and we're more concerned about a publicity stunt. The general is wrong, and I still don't give a shit.
Image

How does the saying go, if everyone around you is an idiot and an asshole, well, maybe they are not the problem?

Isn't it amazing how almost every single person that passes through Trump's orbit in the WH and either resigns or is fired goes from being one of "The Best" people to an absolute buffoon that begged for their job but he had to fire like a dog? Mattis now joins John Kelly, Rex Tillerson, McMaster, Bolton, Michael Cohen, The Mooch, Jeff Sessions, Rosenstein, Dan Coats.... I'm sure I'm missing some other big ones in there that went from the in crowd to the outhouse unceremoniously. Are they all a bunch of closet deep staters or are Bolton and Sessions really closer to Pelosi than Trump politically? It's difficult to keep up.

Oh yea, Adm. McRaven had the audacity to question Dear Leader and got dragged on Twitter by Trump as well. Maybe he can see how well attacking Audie Murphy on Twitter will play politically next.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

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I have the utmost respect for our men and women in our armed services. However, wearing a uniform does not make one immune from criticism and does not mean that they don't have their own political agendas. I don't think Kelly or Mattis ever liked or respected Trump, but accepted these positions out of a "sense of duty" and the belief that they could corral him. I've heard that both are working with Anderson Cooper to do a town hall on CNN right before the election and just thoroughly trash Trump. They may be right...I'm certainly not privy to the conversations they have had with Trump, and Trump can be a loose cannon. However, I don't think either was ever on board with the POTUS and his agenda.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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