Current Outrage

Politics - try to keep the punches above the belt
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Blade
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Blade »

Deadspin Article - "We've Lived with 'The Masters' Long Enough"
Rob Parker wrote:And be honest. When you hear anyone say the Masters, you think of slave masters in the South. There’s nothing else, nothing special. You don’t think of someone mastering the game of golf. When has anyone mastered golf?
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Blade
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Blade »

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/why ... 41108.html


I mean, there has to be a stopping point somewhere right? We can't just eliminate our history...why can't we just learn from it?

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

Might as well rip up the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and tear down Mt Rushmore while we are at it.

Here's my barely educated take.

The Founding Fathers of this nation knew they could only fight one war at a time. Even fighting one war with all 13 united colonies against the most powerful Navy in the world was folly but they were going to do it. I believe Thomas Jefferson (slave owner and frequent copulator - did I just make a word up?) and the rest of the Group of Five (Ben Franklin, John Adams, Roger Sherman, and Robert Livingston) were smart enough to specifically write "that all men are created equal". Not "all white men". Not "all land-owning men". Not "all men and only men". They did that because they knew that things were going to evolve over time and wanted future generations to make revisions as they saw fit. See the Constitution of the United States Article V.

If you want to make the argument that the word "men" meant exactly that in 1776 because blacks were viewed property and women were "inferior", fine make that argument.

I believe if the Group of Five wrote that blacks were going to be free and women were going to have the same rights as men, then: 1) the 13 colonies would NOT have signed off; and 2) there may have been a civil war with the southern colonies. If not a civil war, two countries would have been formed from the git-go.

Over and over again in history, we learn that if you fight a war on multiple fronts (e.g. Nazis going east and west, Napolean going east and west, US in Vietnam and failing support at home), you will lose. The colonies were extremely lucky in so many areas to help them win against the Kingdom. However, I believe this is not one of them. They tabled things like slavery and human rights on purpose because they knew they couldn't win over the colonies running on that kind of platform.

This country needs to get better. In many ways, we have continuously improved over time. Do we have warts? Hell, yeah we do. Is America still the "shining city upon a hill" for other countries to aspire to? Hell yeah! Is it less bright? Maybe but it's nothing we can't fix. Replacing the Star Spangled Banner is not how we fix things. Whatever replacement will be a dividing line and immediately become political.

Now if a coked up Whitney Houston singing the Star Spangled Banner's best rendition at the Super Bowl doesn't still send chills down your back, goosebumps down your arms, and/or make you proud to be an American, it may be time to GTFO.


I yield the floor.

Seymour Butts 2
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Seymour Butts 2 »

BLM leader said they would burn the house down to effect change, both literally and figuratively. OK dude - be careful what you wish for.
I may try to buy into the whole BLM deal when the brothers stop killing other brothers. 28 last weekend in Chicago alone. Does not seem to me that BLM much in that case. Same is true for the large numbers of black babies that are aborted every year. It is more of a culture thing.

We all need to be respectful but this situation has turned to anarchy and domestic terrorism and needs to be stopped. When you are burning down businesses (many of them minority owned) and tearing down statues of abolitionists you have no sense of history and are just plain stupid. Then some want to defund the cops. Will we call 911 and hear we are sending out our thoughts and prayers as soon as possible??

My worst fear is that some just can't take being terrorized any more and start taking out their 2nd amendment rights and start popping some caps into some asses. Fire with fire in this case is not the best solution but the local mayors and governors are not controlling their cities. Citizens of all races and backgrounds are fed up. Powder keg ready to explode.
They give you cash back which is almost like getting money!

GlassJoe
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by GlassJoe »

If they change the anthem to "Welcome to the Jungle", I'll sign off on it. Otherwise, no.

mmmm, double entendres.....

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 6, 2020
Someone explain to me what good comes from a comment like this?

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Vincent Vega »

Is there evidence Wallace planted the rope? I honestly haven't paid much attention to the story since the FBI's report was released.

I can't believe we have a president that tweets shit like that.

GlassJoe
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by GlassJoe »

trump is an absolute joke of a human being.

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

Vincent Vega wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:28 pm
Is there evidence Wallace planted the rope? I honestly haven't paid much attention to the story since the FBI's report was released.

I can't believe we have a president that tweets shit like that.
From everything I understand, the sequence of events goes something like this.
  • Rope/noose was in that garage stall since at least the fall of 2019.
  • George Floyd is killed.
  • NASCAR bans the Confederate flag.
  • Bubba's team was assigned to that garage stall for the Talladega race.
  • Someone in Bubba's team found the noose. Bubba never saw it. Bubba didn't report it.
  • The #43 team reported it to NASCAR.
  • NASCAR got the feds/authorities involved.
  • NASCAR has a show of solidarity before the Talladega race.
  • Feds determine the noose was there well before the #43 team was assigned the stall and that Bubba was NOT the target of a hate crime.
From what I gather, the FBI determined it was a string of unfortunate events that made it look like Bubba was a target of a hate crime when he wasn't. Because of George Floyd's death and the banning of the Confederate flag, people were on edge but no one did anything deliberately wrong.

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

He's on all sorts of a sports tear today. I bet if he ran his own team and headed up a league lawsuit, they'd be run perfectly.
They name teams out of STRENGTH, not weakness, but now the Washington Redskins & Cleveland Indians, two fabled sports franchises, look like they are going to be changing their names in order to be politically correct. Indians, like Elizabeth Warren, must be very angry right now!
12:13 PM · Jul 6, 2020

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

Tucker Carlson is a tool. Years ago, he used to give insightful knowledge. Now he's just a blowhorn for the Trump administration. I don't believe all Democrats dispise America. Most probably hate their President or at least what he stands for.

However, Tammy Duckworth's views on erasing George Washington from monuments and the history books isn't a path toward healing. It's plain dumb.

Should Rome tear down the Roman Colloseum because they made slaves fight to the death there? What about the US Capitol? What about Prague? Venice? All of Belguim? All made with slave labor.

Educate people. Put up a plack stating not just their achievements but also their faults/sins. Judging previous generations based on standards held today AND did NOT exist then is extremely difficult. That shouldn't mean rip it all down.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

Trump has a unique ability to shoot himself in the foot, and the Bubba Wallace stuff is another exhibit in an ever-growing list of evidence. I really wish that Twitter would just ban him, because it would be in his best interest.

That said, all of you libertarians and Never-Trumpers need to hold your nose and vote for him in a few months. The alternative is the destruction of our nation, our economy and our way of life.

Think I'm exaggerating? Biden (or whoever is pulling his strings) tweeted on the 4th that we need to "transform" the country. If he is elected, the radicals on the left will take this country apart. They're trying to do it now. Here is what will happen if Biden is elected (and probably sooner than you think):

1. The left will stack the Supreme Court and take a wrecking ball to every constitutional precedent they don't like.

2. So long 2nd Amendment. Beto can't wait.

3. Dismantlement of police and law enforcement. They're doing this already.

4. Dismantlement of the American economy, capitalism and the free market. Ilhan Omar said this today.

5. The erasure of American history. The demonization of every American leader who doesn't fit the left's narrative.

6. Open borders. U.S. citizenship will be given away, guaranteeing that Democrats will never lose another election.

7. Just in case that doesn't work, they'll eliminate the electoral college. Major cities will decide elections, meaning that the rural vote (and our interests) will become meaningless.

In short, 'Merica ends. A new generation of angry, ignorant entitled white kids who never got an ass whooping when they were young and doesn't understand why we won the Cold War is hellbent on destroying our nation. Some of you are in denial about just how bad this is. If you want your kids to grow up in a socialist utopia, then vote for Joe. Hell, it's probably going to happen anyways, since the radical left has no respect for cultural norms and no patience, but a vote for Joe pretty much guarantees it. Joe will be in the Lincoln bedroom watching John Wayne movies and eating graham crackers, while The Squad, Beto, Buttigieg, the Castro Brothers, Stacy Abrams, et al take a blowtorch to the U.S. Constitution.

The Marxists are at the door. Are you going to let them in because you don't like Trump's tweets? This is a binary choice. Trump, or an irreversible descent into Marxism.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not. Maybe most Democrats don't "despise" America, but they damn sure don't love it.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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Titties (o)(o)
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Titties (o)(o) »

Well said.

GlassJoe
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by GlassJoe »

I unfortunately have to agree with MOMD. I just hate Trump. He's such a moron. I hate Biden and the whacky left too.

I truly have no candidate/party.

I'm moving to Andorra.

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

W. wins 2000 - Dems: The world will never be the same. We'll be the laughing stock of the entire world. He's going to open every ocean, stream, and government land to his crooked oil buddies. W. hates black people.
--In reality, he helped the US get through the worst attack since Pearl Harbor and worked both sides on many things. He was more or less endeared by other world leaders (minus the whole war bit). He didn't abandon the EPA which was put in place by Nixon, another republican. He botched the Patriot Act, Hurricane Katrina, and led us into a never-ending war.

Obama wins 2008 - Reps: He's gonna come after our guns. He's gonna give away the farm to minorities. He's gonna bankrupt our country with his free healthcare system. He's gonna tax us to death. He's gonna appease all the foreign countries before looking out for the US. He's gonna kill the oil industry.
--In reality, he abused his executive order privilege. He used more drone attacks than Bush. The oil industry saw its best time in over 40 years and we became less energy dependent on foreign oil. More people than ever were on food stamps. More people than ever had health care. Guns didn't go anywhere. Many people in the black community said he didn't do enough to elevate their community.

Point being, we have a checks and balances system that works and has worked for the last 240ish years. If the House and Senate are of the opposite party of the President, then the President doesn't really have a whole lot of power. He can't pass things on his own. He needs the House and Senate's cooperation. Trump is a science-denying, bigot of a man. Biden doesn't have the faculties anymore to be President and very well could be a puppet for the Squad be he's already said he's not a communist or socialist Democrat. Either way, if he has a Senate or House that is Republican, compromise and checks will be in place so he can't push this nation too far left.

1. Do you think John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Alito Gorsuch, or Kavanaugh are going to quit or die in the next 4 years? Probably not and probably not in the next 8 years.

2. Never gonna happen. That's fearmongering. Changing the Bill of Rights is extremely hard to do and would be a judicial nightmare that would last decades.

3. I don't think you are necessarily wrong. A slight pull back would be healthy for everyone though. Police are asked to do too many things today. I have a friend that is a cop. You can't ask someone to be a SWAT team member to social worker to EMT and everything in between without expecting some failures. Police are mostly hammers and far too often we expect them to be something else.

4. There is no doubt a groundswell for socialism. I don't understand it. What I do understand is why people are angry when they have a good paying job but can't afford the same things their parents did (i.e. a house, food for their family, college, a car, and their health care). It seems like just one generation ago, they had everything. In their perspective, the American Dream has left them when they did everything they were told and supposed to do. "According to data from the National Institute on Retirement Security, 59% of working-age people in America don’t have any money in a retirement account—whether an employer-sponsored 401(k) or an IRA—and aren’t covered by defined-benefit pensions." This is just sad. https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474 If people can't or don't save while their in their prime working years, they are going to expect the government to bail them out with Social Security and/or an universal basic income (UBI).

5. Agreed

6. Not necessarily a bad thing if it is managed. Make it easier to get into the US legally. Then make sure they know/learn English. As the Dude said, we should open our arms to anyone in Hong Kong that doesn't want to be put in a Chinese concentration camp. This is a nation of immigrants. It always has been and always will be. That should be more embraced today.

7. Supreme Court just ruled that faithless electors can't go rogue https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-rules-states-stop-faithless-electors-rogue/story?id=71628464. That's good news; however, I think the popular vote is coming. When you have to explain your position, you're losing. The popular vote doesn't need any explanation.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

Bubs, while I understand what you're saying, I think you're missing the big picture. We're at a turning point in our history, because we have a generation (your 18-30 age group) who is far more radical than anything we have ever seen in this country. I understand perfectly that we have a system of checks and balances that is supposed to prevent tyranny and totalitarianism, and that that system in the past has prevented presidents from carrying out their worst inclinations. But the "everybody gets a trophy" generation doesn't respect our system of checks and balances or anything about our constitution or government. If/when they get power, they will tear the whole thing down just like they are doing to statues of Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln and even Frederick F'ing Douglass. They respect nothing about our country. We've always had fringe groups like this in our country, but this is no longer a fringe group. Pelosi, Shumer et al are listening to them and is willing to turn the country over to them as long as they get to be in power. Democrat leadership will burn the country down as long as they get to be in charge of the ashes. The Democratic Party of the present/future doesn't want to make the system work better...they want to destroy the system. They want "fairness" over opportunity. They want the government to control all aspects of our lives. They don't believe that America is exceptional, nor that we should be a superpower.

They're spoiled idiots who don't realize how great they have it, and they are steering the ship on the left side of the aisle.

As for my individual points:

1. First of all, John Roberts is a liberal pos. As for the others, I actually hope that Thomas and/or Alito steps down soon so that Trump can replace them with a younger jurist. Pretty sure they are both in their seventies.

But, you're missing my bigger point...they will "stack" the court, just like FDR tried to do. They will add judges to the court so that they get the majority and than can keep it. I know Mayor Pete openly talked about this during the campaign, and I didn't hear anybody on the left say it was a bad idea. Again, rules and precedents mean nothing to the post-Obama Democratic Party.

2. If libs gets all three branches of government, they will do everything in their power to get rid of the 2nd Amendment. You seem to think that a GOP majority in the House of Senate, or the SC will not allow this. What if they win both houses? What happens when they get the majority on the SC? Game over for gun owners.

3. Police officers are asked to wear too many hats, and reform and improvement of law enforcement is a good and necessary idea. That said, the next generation isn't interested in reform. They believe police are racist oppressors.

4. There is a groundswell for socialism, and much of it comes from academia. We've allowed Marxists and socialists to take over the faculties of our universities and indoctrinate a generation into hating our nation and system of government. The GOP should try to push federal legislation that bans tenure systems in universities and pushes out professors who lack objectivity.

5. Good.

6. Sorry, this is Libertarian horseshit. Yes, we're a nation of immigrants. My ancestors were immigrants to this country at one point, and they did something different that today's immigrants are doing. They became Americans. They loved this country. They learned the language, and they assimilated.

Speaking anecdotally here, most of today's immigrants (certainly most of the illegal ones) don't assimilate. They don't learn the language, and they remain more loyal to their home nation than ours. They just like our higher standard of living. I'm all for improving legal immigration and bringing in people who are willing to assimilate, especially if they bring in unique skills or talents. But, illegal immigration is an albatross around our neck, and must stop. And, how does bringing in unskilled labor that is willing to work for next to nothing help the American working class?

7. Liberals despise the electoral college, even though it is one of the more brilliant things about our government. Our presidential election is essentially 50 different state elections, and that guarantees that every state has a say in our future. Take that away, and essentially New York, Chicago, LA, Houston, Atlanta, et al will decide how our government works...you know, the same places that have been run by Democrats for generations, have widespread poverty and violence and are now in the process of defunding police departments. The days of candidates at least giving lip service to Iowa, South Carolina, Arizona etc. is over. We would be so fucked.

Hold your nose, bubs. I don't love Trump, but the alternative is chaos.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

GlassJoe
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by GlassJoe »

when is it "too late" for the republican party to decide Trump isn't their man and put up someone else? Could that ever happen??? Or are they sure that everyone barely right of middle will come out and vote for Trump in such a charged election year?

Master of My Domain
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by Master of My Domain »

Trump has the delegates needed for the nomination. It’s too late. In theory, if no candidate has enough delegates to secure the nomination, then some weird stuff could happen. The Dems were looking at this possibility before they all got behind Biden.

The only way Trump is not the nominee is if he voluntarily steps down. Four years ago I hoped he would step down after the Access Hollywood stuff came out, but he didn’t and somehow this country decided he was the lesser of two evils.

Four years later, he still is the lesser of two evils.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

GJ - that shipped sailed a LONG time ago. One reason the Republican party has seen as much success as it has over the last 20+ years is that it stands together. Right or wrong, they rarely break (e.g. Romney refusing to convict Trump). The biggest example I can think of when they have fractured is the Tea Party movement. It is still alive but has mostly but sucked back up by the general GOP.

Democrats have been all over the place and seem to rarely get on the same page and they have suffered because of it. There are Liberal Democrats, Green Democrats, Socialist Democrats, Communist Democrats, Moderate Democrats, Progressive Democrats. They can't make up their mind who they want to be or which fight to fight. Because of that, they have also missed out on true education reform, environmental reform, energy policy, social welfare policy, immigration reform, and health care reform.

MOMD - I get it. I do think we could be on the cusp of something truly significant that could change the US for a long time. However, similar rhetoric and political talking points were used in the 50's and 60's during the Civil Rights movement and the Cold War, the 70's during Watergate and the Vietnam War, the 80's during the disastrous War on Drugs, the 90's Clinton/Lewinsky affair, Desert Storm, NAFTA, the immigration BOOM.

Point being, every decade has a tipping point where one side says the end is near and other is status quo or inevitable change that must be embraced. I believe change is coming, whether Trump is in office or not, and I KNOW the US will come out of this on the other side different but still the Greatest Country in the world. I still trust the system.

The biggest threat to the US has always been ourselves. That hasn't changed; however, we need to keep better tabs on China.

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T-Bubs
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Re: Current Outrage

Post by T-Bubs »

1. You're right. Alito and Thomas are both in their early 70s. Plus RBG (she ooooold). There could be a lot of turnover. Agree to disagree on Roberts. He seems to be the only one that votes his conscience and judicial precedence and less on which party elected him in.

I don't want to see any more judges add to the SC. But it's nothing new. 1789 - 6. 1801 - 5. 1802 - 6. 1807 - 7. 1837 - 9. 1863 - 10. 1866 - 9. 1867 - 8. 1869 - 9. FDR wanted 15. This is a political card used by whoever's not in power or doesn't have the number of seats they want.

2. Yep. There could be an election that gives the Dems all 3 branches of government. That's how elections work. They will then try to railroad all their legalisation through as fast as they can. But see Obama's first term and the 111th US Congress. All Dems. Things didn't go as Looney Toons as you are imagining.

3. See Seattle's CHOP. They tried. It failed. The police aren't going anywhere. Secondly, if there's no police, gun rights will become even stronger. How else does one protect themselves?

4. Agreed but more legislation won't fix things. See the War on Drugs, speeding laws, and the modern day gas can.

5. Good. Cool.

6. I think we mostly agree.

I should have been more clear. When you make immigrants learn the national language (English), they are more likley to assimilate. Make it easier to get here while making knowing English a critical piece. There are good people with good qualities that will help American improve. Make them learn English by making the English language the only primary language taught in schools. The Naturalization Test is already English only (save for some extreme exemptions). If you make easier to become a citizen, they will have to know enough English to take the test so hopefully they do that before they get here. Make knowing English an incentive for a faster path to citizenship.

7. Again. I agree. I just don't know how it lasts if the Dems lose another election and win the popular vote.

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