Thanks, Libertarians!

General BS, no politics
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Master of My Domain
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Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by Master of My Domain »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/libertaria ... 1604867668
Jo Jorgensen exceeds Biden's margin in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia.

This Wall Street Journal Opinion is written by Walter E. Block, professor of economics at Loyola University New Orleans.

Did the Libertarian Party throw the election to Joe Biden? Maybe. At this writing nominee Jo Jorgensen's vote total exceeds Mr. Biden's margin over President Trump in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania, enough to change the outcome.

In 2000 the Green Party was accused of ruining things for the Democrats. Did Ralph Nader throw the election from Al Gore to George W. Bush? The cognoscenti are still divided, but the 2020 parallels are strong. Probably most Green voters would have gone Democratic if forced into a binary choice. Similarly, on the Libertarian-O-Meter, Mr. Trump scores much higher than Mr. Biden.

The national Libertarian Party started in 1971, several state parties earlier. In 1969 I had the honor to run for the New York Assembly. My motto was "Disassemble the Assembly." I didn't win; I'm not sure my vote total reached triple digits. But I've been a staunch member of the party ever since.

In 2016 physician Donald Miller, historian Ralph Raico and I started a group called Libertarians for Trump. Our advice to libertarian voters was: If you live in Massachusetts or California, strong blue states, vote for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian nominee. The Republicans will lose big there, and your vote for the porcupine won't help the donkey beat the elephant. Likewise in Louisiana or Alabama, where Mr. Trump was sure to win. But if you live in a purple state, don't vote Libertarian. It is crucial that Donald beat Hillary!

I kick myself for not reinstituting this effort in 2019. My thought was that Gary Johnson, a former governor, was well-known and might manage 5% of the vote. He actually registered 3.27%, still more than three times the previous record of 1.06%, set by Ed Clark in 1980. I figured Ms. Jorgenson for 0.25%. She now looks on track to exceed Mr. Clark's percentage slightly and hand the presidency to Mr. Biden.

Pardon me while I beat my head against the wall. How could libertarians in purple states be so stupid?
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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T-Bubs
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by T-Bubs »

I'll take the bait.

What a LAZY argument. No one owns your vote. It has to be earned. If you want people to vote for your party, do better in convincing them. They owe you NOTHING.


Similarly, on the Libertarian-O-Meter, Mr. Trump scores much higher than Mr. Biden.
I would agree with this statement. Most the Libertarians I meet seem to lean red. At the same time, CNN's all John King talked about was how the Gary Johnson votes from 2016 seemed to have went to Biden in 2020. Now there's no way to knowing that. At the end of the day, President Trump didn't do good enough while is Republican peers in the House and Senate managed to stifle the "Blue Wave".

GlassJoe
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by GlassJoe »

what an ass. vote for who you want. trump lost b/c he's a fucking horrible person.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by Master of My Domain »

I agree with a lot of Libertarian philosophy, but I don't understand how Libertarians can vote third party in an election where one side is openly saying it wants to eliminate the electoral college, pack the court, make DC and Puerto Rico states, grant citizenship to illegals, etc., and rig the game permanently in favor of people who lean towards socialism and even Marxism. Libertarians claim to oppose government overreach and limitations on personal liberty, but want to sit on their hands and let the pinkos take over. I don't get it.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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T-Bubs
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by T-Bubs »

Help me understand, voting but not voting for your party = sitting on your hands? I would argue voting for a Libertarian candidate is even a harder stance against Socialism and Marxism. Libertarians want to reduce spending and reduce government welfare programs more than anyone. Republicans just want to spend less than Democrats. Republicans helped build this mess anyhow (e.g. the PATRIOT Act, continued corporate and government bailouts). Please show me in the graph below where Republicans are trying to REDUCE spending. Again, they are part of the problem.

Why is Rand Paul the only one railing against spending money on how quails sexual activity is affected by cocaine?!? https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/spen ... -rand-paul
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4263280/

Image
https://www.rpc.senate.gov/imo/media/im ... gcomps.jpg

Image

BEFORE COVID, Trump increased the deficit to $666 billion in 2017 and $984 billion in 2019. When Obama left office, it was $586 billion. These are NOT conservative ideals.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones ... a21aa48199

I bet most people don't understand why people vote for a third party because they only see the election just as both the Democrats and Republicans want people to see it. As an "either/or" option. That's a trap most Americans have fallen for. I would gladly vote Republican again but they are going to earn it. No more overspending. No more demonizing immigrants. No more racial dog whistles. No more endless wars. No more war on drugs. No more PATRIOT Act. I bet most people would say these ideas would be a coming home for the Republican party.

Forbidding a willing territory to become a state sounds more like more government overreach to me.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by Master of My Domain »

This post probably came off as more abrasive than I had intended. I happened to run across this article, and being that festivus is home to several self-proclaimed Libertarians, I thought I would post it here for some feedback.

If indeed Biden becomes POTUS, I don't believe Libertarians will be the reason why. I think the reason why will be a combination of an election incapable of being verified because of mail-in ballots that should have never been allowed, censorship by the media and the tech companies, as well as Trump's well-documented off-putting personality.

However, I'm disappointed in LIbertarians. I understand the idea of voting third party when you're choosing between George W. Bush and John Kerry, two sides of the same establishment coin. However, this isn't the same Democrat Party of year's past. They've identified themselves as either radical leftists, or at least (Pelosi, Shumer, Biden) easily pushed around by the radical left. They've openly discussed things in the past year that are a genuine threat to our republic. Shumer just said a day or two ago that when they win the Senate, they will change America. Do you think they're going to change it into anything that resembles the America that LIbertarians claim to want?

And, Trump isn't the Republican Party of the past. Don't Libertarians hate us being the policeman of the world and getting involved in needless wars? How many wars has Trump gotten us into? I don't recall Trump being in favor of the Patriot Act, especially since Obama and Co. used the intelligence community to spy on him and his administration.

Spending? Yeah, you got me there. I'm not happy about spending at all, either.

You mentioned Rand Paul...who supports Trump. Rand Paul is a pragmatic Libertarian. He supports LIbertarian ideals while trying to work within the framework of a party that might actually impact American life. It seems as if LIbertarians are content to let the country to fall apart so that they can be the critic who never actually got their hands dirty. Just my opinion, FWIW.

And wanting the immigration laws enforced is not "demonizing immigrants." Trump made legitimate gains in both the African-American and Hispanic votes in 2020...if he gets a second term, I could easily see him morphing the Republican Party into the Neocon party of Bush, McCain, Romney, etc. into a middle class, blue-collar party that gets significant votes from minorities "Racial dog whistles" is just the main stream media bs narrative.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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T-Bubs
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by T-Bubs »

Master of My Domain wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm
I think the reason why will be a combination of an election incapable of being verified because of mail-in ballots that should have never been allowed, censorship by the media and the tech companies, as well as Trump's well-documented off-putting personality.
Agreed. Unfortunately, a lot of republicans helped make the mail-in voting happen and it's not going anywhere any time soon.

Schumer and Pelosi are threats for sure. Trump didn't start any new wars but neither did Obama and he certainly had the right with Iran and the "red-line" debacle.
Master of My Domain wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm
I don't recall Trump being in favor of the Patriot Act, especially since Obama and Co. used the intelligence community to spy on him and his administration.
It certainly wasn't part of his platform to get rid of it. In fact, I bet his ego couldn't keep him from using it in a similar way to spy on his enemies.
Master of My Domain wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm
It seems as if LIbertarians are content to let the country to fall apart so that they can be the critic who never actually got their hands dirty.
Anytime a legitimate candidate gets some traction (e.g. Gary Johnson), Libertarians are dismissed and called radical because we think you can marry the same sex, own a gun, pray to any god you want, separation of church and state, lower taxes, and smoke weed all at the same time.
Master of My Domain wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm
I could easily see him morphing the Republican Party into the Neocon party of Bush, McCain, Romney, etc. into a middle class, blue-collar party that gets significant votes from minorities "Racial dog whistles" is just the main stream media bs narrative.
Crazy talk. I'm not saying he's a racist. I actually don't think he is. I do think he believes he can get more votes pandering to the alt-right/white supremacy/afraid-of-brown crowd because that crowd is already organized and it's low hanging fruit for him.

"Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump may have failed to disavow the Ku Klux Klan in late February." Trump sidestepped opportunities to renounce white nationalist and former KKK leader David Duke. - Feb 2016

“He’s a Mexican,” Trump told CNN of Justice Curiel. “We’re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings — rulings that people can’t even believe.” - June 2016

His impeachment was like a lynching - Oct 2019

Mexican rapists - 2015

Haitians “have AIDS” and that once Nigerian immigrants had seen the U.S. they would never “go back to their huts.” - Disputed but reported 2017

Total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S. - 2015

'Very fine people on both sides' - 2017

Then this. Say whatever you want about the left wing radicals of Antifa and anarchists but he had a ripe opportunity to emphatically and demonstratively denounce white supremacy and he did not do it.

Master of My Domain
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by Master of My Domain »

'Very fine people on both sides' - 2017
The most bs, out of context quote ever. Look at Trump's FULL statement, specifically what he says about Neo-Nazis and white nationalists around the 2:00 mark. Biden said this was the reason that he ran, and it was 100% full of crap.



Bubs, how many times does he have to denounce white supremacists and nationalists? He has done it many, many times. Yet, that question keeps getting asked by the propagandists in the media because the race card is always the first card in their deck.
“May the wings of liberty never lose a feather.” - Jack Burton

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T-Bubs
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Re: Thanks, Libertarians!

Post by T-Bubs »

I'm not calling him a racist. How he's been labeled is partially his doing. Trump is not a dumb man. He's unconventional and harsh which a lot of people don't like and it puts a target on his back.

I do think he knows how to pander to get votes and support being controversial. As the great Eric Bishoff once said and titled his book - Controversy Creates Cash. Trump lives and dies by that motto. This is one example. If he hadn't said these things (or at least with more couth) and shown just a little more compassion, I bet he would have won the election because suburbanite moms would have voted for him again. But they didn't. Most just read the headlines and don't want to associate themselves with a perceived racist and authoritarian.

The quote is not nearly as bad with full context but we live in a headlined news era.

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